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Post by Chicago on Dec 22, 2006 15:02:27 GMT -5
Iverson has played with young Stackhouse and Larry Hughes and ruined both of them. This will be tough on Carmelo because he wont' be scoring as much anymore. Iverson dominates the ball. I know that Iverson never played with anyone as good as Carmelo before but they won't get as many shots up now because Miller is gone. If someone is ahead of him he passes to them. Smith will be non existent now. Just watch and see. Smith wont be non existent.... matter of fact i think Smith will benefit big time... like Korvor did.... Iverson is gonna attack and kick Smith takes 12 shots a game.... and 7 of em are 3's.... he'll be fine
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Post by Washington on Dec 22, 2006 15:06:02 GMT -5
Ruined Stackhouse and Larry Hughes??
In Ivy's defense- Stack is a "good" scorer who can't shoot and Hughes is a "good" defender who gambles way too much.
They ruined themselves.
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Post by Chicago on Dec 22, 2006 15:14:31 GMT -5
Ruined Stackhouse and Larry Hughes?? In Ivy's defense- Stack is a "good" scorer who can't shoot and Hughes is a "good" defender who gambles way too much. They ruined themselves. Larry Hughes health has hurt his career.... Stackhouse averaged 18.4ppg in the 100 plus games with AI.... his career average is 19.6ppg and he didnt really become a scorer till his 5th season in da league in the 99 games with pistons following the trade... 15.1ppg
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Post by Washington on Dec 22, 2006 15:16:47 GMT -5
I thought he had a season with the Pistons in which he averaged like 28. Did he seriously average only 15 with them? Thats surprising.
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Post by Indiana on Dec 22, 2006 15:42:29 GMT -5
I thought he had a season with the Pistons in which he averaged like 28. Did he seriously average only 15 with them? Thats surprising. He averaged 30 ppg with them in 2001. The only 15 ppg season he had was with them in the lockout year. Well, and 2 years ago in Dallas. I think he's just talking about 1997-1998 and the lockout years, though.
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Post by Utah on Dec 22, 2006 17:58:49 GMT -5
Smith will fall into zeroness. Iverson will drive and kick to Carmelo. Not to smith. This is going to be interesting.
Stack was very good. I forgot to mention VanHorn also. Iverson hasn't made one guy he played with a better player. Korver will do 3-5 ppg better with Miller at point.
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Post by Washington on Dec 22, 2006 20:37:18 GMT -5
Oic what Miami was saying. Sorry, I thought you meant that Iverson permenantly hindered the success of Stackhouse/Hughes, but you were saying that those players looked better in a situation in which Iverson wasn't the point.
I agree. Iverson isn't the type of player who makes teammates better. He is a leader who takes over in crunch time situations and plays with his heart on his sleeve, BUT he is not the type of PG you would want. Especially for a situation like this in which he isn't (or is battling for) the number one option.
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Post by Washington on Dec 22, 2006 21:43:02 GMT -5
Notice how the Suns have a PG who can distribute and allow everyone to get theirs. Iverson has averaged 7apg like the last 3-4 seasons... and thats with a bunch of nobodys to convert those passes to buckets and the suns thing has more to do with tempo then Nash.... cause when Nash is on the bench the ball dont stop moving.... The Suns are -6.3 when Nash is on the bench this season. He has proven that he is the most valuable player on the team to a point where has been voted most valuable player of the league two years running. Iverson is nothing like Nash in terms of being a PG. He has yet to take a team past the first round when playing the PG position (though he has been very successful when a player, more of a true PG, can take care of the defensive duties in Eric Snow has been the point-guard). His IQ isn't as high as Nash, his mentality is nothing like Nash. He doesn't make his teammates better like Nash. They can try a Phoenix-style offense, but it won't work without a PG who can distribute the ball and get his teammates involved like Nash can. Iverson is not that PG.
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Post by Chicago on Dec 23, 2006 1:35:31 GMT -5
Iverson has averaged 7apg like the last 3-4 seasons... and thats with a bunch of nobodys to convert those passes to buckets and the suns thing has more to do with tempo then Nash.... cause when Nash is on the bench the ball dont stop moving.... The Suns are -6.3 when Nash is on the bench this season. He has proven that he is the most valuable player on the team to a point where has been voted most valuable player of the league two years running. Iverson is nothing like Nash in terms of being a PG. He has yet to take a team past the first round when playing the PG position (though he has been very successful when a player, more of a true PG, can take care of the defensive duties in Eric Snow has been the point-guard). His IQ isn't as high as Nash, his mentality is nothing like Nash. He doesn't make his teammates better like Nash. They can try a Phoenix-style offense, but it won't work without a PG who can distribute the ball and get his teammates involved like Nash can. Iverson is not that PG. the suns are also +13 with Kurt Thomas on the floor and dont get me started with Nash winning the mvp twice, what a joke.... yall keep talkin Iverson isnt a true pg... whateva that is... the guy is a player.... 22 points and 10 assists tonight
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Post by Washington on Dec 23, 2006 7:08:13 GMT -5
The Suns are -6.3 when Nash is on the bench this season. He has proven that he is the most valuable player on the team to a point where has been voted most valuable player of the league two years running. Iverson is nothing like Nash in terms of being a PG. He has yet to take a team past the first round when playing the PG position (though he has been very successful when a player, more of a true PG, can take care of the defensive duties in Eric Snow has been the point-guard). His IQ isn't as high as Nash, his mentality is nothing like Nash. He doesn't make his teammates better like Nash. They can try a Phoenix-style offense, but it won't work without a PG who can distribute the ball and get his teammates involved like Nash can. Iverson is not that PG. the suns are also +13 with Kurt Thomas on the floor and dont get me started with Nash winning the mvp twice, what a joke.... yall keep talkin Iverson isnt a true pg... whateva that is... the guy is a player.... 22 points and 10 assists tonight I agree that he is a player. Puts his heart on the line every night. Takes over in crunch time. One of the toughest players of our time. I'm just saying, he is playing out of position. 22/10 is good, but its not like he led his team to victory (losing to a dissappointing Sac team), so I don't see really see your point. As for Nash's MVP being a joke- are you serious? He turned around a crappy team to 60 wins. The next season, after Amare went down, he still led them to another great season. Nash may not be one of the best players, but he is definetly one of the most valuable players. What he has done for the Suns, IMO, warrants the MVP trophies (especially considering the fact that he is a better candiate than anybody else out there).
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Post by Chicago on Dec 23, 2006 12:44:39 GMT -5
the suns are also +13 with Kurt Thomas on the floor and dont get me started with Nash winning the mvp twice, what a joke.... yall keep talkin Iverson isnt a true pg... whateva that is... the guy is a player.... 22 points and 10 assists tonight I agree that he is a player. Puts his heart on the line every night. Takes over in crunch time. One of the toughest players of our time. I'm just saying, he is playing out of position. 22/10 is good, but its not like he led his team to victory (losing to a dissappointing Sac team), so I don't see really see your point. As for Nash's MVP being a joke- are you serious? He turned around a crappy team to 60 wins. The next season, after Amare went down, he still led them to another great season. Nash may not be one of the best players, but he is definetly one of the most valuable players. What he has done for the Suns, IMO, warrants the MVP trophies (especially considering the fact that he is a better candiate than anybody else out there). they lost to da kings but they didnt have Melo, JR or Camby... replacing 3 starters is tough 2 seasons ago.... Shaq and Iverson were candiates last season.... Dirk, Bron, Wade, Brand, Kobe, Billups and any team that has Joe Johnson, Q Rich, Amare and Marion isnt a crappy team.... Amare was a fukkin beast that season and last season and this season they are deftinly the deepest team in da league.... guys like jalen rose and marcus banks who get no run there would start or get major run on a bunch of teams in dis league Nash being the mvp makes as much sense as a DH winning the mvp in baseball, they dont play defense and either does he... how can a guard who plays over 30 minutes a game in fast paced games not get 1spg at least? Gilbert Arenas who isnt exactly a defensive stopper gets 2spg for da wizards
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Post by Washington on Dec 23, 2006 14:19:43 GMT -5
The season before Nash got there, they had all those players (well except for QRich), and they were a crappy team.
And while I do agree on Nash's defense being weak, I think that it is his playmaking and offensive skill which make the Suns as great as they are.
As you said- Amare was a beast that season. If you don't feel that Nash deserved the MVP the first yer, then he most definetly deserved the MVP the next season because the Suns were great without him.
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Post by Chicago on Dec 23, 2006 21:28:41 GMT -5
The season before Nash got there, they had all those players (well except for QRich), and they were a crappy team. And while I do agree on Nash's defense being weak, I think that it is his playmaking and offensive skill which make the Suns as great as they are. As you said- Amare was a beast that season. If you don't feel that Nash deserved the MVP the first yer, then he most definetly deserved the MVP the next season because the Suns were great without him. they werent great without him... they won like 50 games and were a good team at best.... they got to the western conference finals but they beat the lakers and clippers to get there... and it took them 7 games in both series... and the lakers were one defensive rebound away in game 6 and the clippers were one bonehead coaching move away in game 5 in the 2nd round of beating them..... yes im talkin about puttin in the rook ewing, who hadnt played all series for the must cruical play in the series the suns were barely getting by last season... had they played the mavs or spurs before the western conference finals, they wouldnt have made it there..... no one feared playing them last season.... they were dominated in the paint.... they need Marion and Amare to score in the paint, defend the rim and grab boards to be elite
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Post by Washington on Dec 23, 2006 22:39:59 GMT -5
Maybe so, but they were definetly exceeded expectations.
They won 54 games to win a pretty solid pacific division to get to the conference finals (doesn't matter how they got there, the fact is, they got there). I would say that they proved that Amare wasn't as valuable as people thought he was.
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Post by Washington on Dec 23, 2006 22:57:26 GMT -5
If I (as in me, personally) were to vote for MVP, I would take the team MVPs for the best teams in the league, and ask myself the question, "which of these guys brought to most to the table to make their teams as great as it was?" It isn't necessarily the best player in the game, it is the one which does the most to make their teams win the most games.
My vote in '04-'05 would've easily been Nash. As for last year, I didn't see any clear-cut #1, but I would've voted for Dirk with Nash being a very close second (hence the reason I am not complaining about Nash winning, infact defending the fact that he won). So far this year, my pick is for my boy Yao (I know, I know. It's "homeristic," but I don't give a fuck. He has been sensational thus far. And if he keeps this up, then I don't see how he can be left out of the conversation).
I guess each person has their own way to choose an MVP tho. I just look at the Suns as a great team built on their offense with Nash being the #1 reason their offense is as great as it is, making him the #1 reason the Suns are as great as they are.
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